Neurodiversity At Work feat. Dan Cryer

Cam recently had the great opportunity to sit down with Dan Cryer, the Director of Technology at Gear4music, to discuss his journey with ADHD. From first being dismissed by his doctor at 35, to being diagnosed privately at 36, and how it has helped to shape his work habits and his memories from childhood.

In this candid conversation, Dan opens up about the challenges, triumphs, and invaluable lessons learned, offering a unique perspective on living and working with neurodiversity. Here he provides practical advice and personal anecdotes that shed light on the importance of understanding and embracing neurodiversity in the workplace.

Dan Cryer = DC

Cameron Reid = CR

CR: Hey Dan, thank you so much for agreeing to do this!

DC: No worries, I’m more than happy to chat about my experiences. As long as you understand I’m not an expert!

CR: So, to kick things off, why don’t you introduce yourself, who you are, what you do, and your journey with Neurodiversity.

DC: Yeah of course, so I’m Dan, the Director of Tech at Gear4music. I started 6 years ago and really my role is to look after our technical team and the health and future of our platform. Making sure it runs smoothly and is heading in the right direction.

I was diagnosed with ADHD late in life. Growing up I always knew that my mind worked differently, but I thought I was just… different. It’s been a very eye-opening experience learning about neurodiversity, and in turn about myself. Not in a way that I’m upset or disappointed in at all, but it has certainly taken a lot of processing.

Just realising that lots of things I went through in school or in my career are all classic ADHD situations. For example, in my early career, I would quite frequently do very little coding throughout the week, but then do a weeks’ worth of work in one day at the end of the week. I, and often my managers, always put it down to laziness as the code I produced was really good, but I just always at the last moment. So, learning that’s a common ADHD experience has been really interesting.

CR: You mentioned about school, did you used to get the “Would do better if he could stop talking” reports? I only ask as when I first got my diagnosis at 21, I was moving for the first time and found a load of my old school reports and looking back, they read like a who’s who of Neurodiversity characteristics. One teacher called me “Street smart, not book smart”!

DC: Wow. So, I was never the disruptive ADHD kid. I was the “sits at the back and talks too much” kid. Luckily, I was friends with the smart kids and smart kids rarely got in trouble, so I got away with it more. My reports all read “Dan would do better if he applied himself” and I was always told I’m intelligent, just too lazy or that I didn’t try hard enough.

One perfect example, sorry for side tracking so early!

CR: no please, this is great!

DC: I took intermediate Maths for GCSE. I don’t think it exists anymore, but it sat between higher and foundation maths. In intermediate maths, the highest grade you could achieve was a B. My teacher said to me that if I didn’t try harder, then I was likely to fail maths, and certainly wouldn’t get a B. She was frustrated as I never really concentrated, always talked through lessons, and very rarely did any homework. I can be quite stubborn, even more so when I was younger, so I decided I wasn’t going to change my habits, to prove her wrong. At the end of my GCSE’s I got the B in maths, so I had both not failed and proven her wrong. Win-win. However, I look back at that now and think, if I was on medication, if a teacher had spoken to me about it more to deal with it, or even if I had actually applied myself like she said, maybe I should have been doing the higher course?

CR: When I first got diagnosed, I had the same thoughts. Almost like regret for someone else’s inaction. But now I’m older I realise that a teacher has so much to do from the moment they wake up to the second they stop marking late at night, that if they aren’t supported or trained, then people like us fly under the radar.

DC: I think it’s really important that people in positions like that get better training in this area. Neurodiversity is often not hard to spot if you know what you’re looking for. I used to volunteer with the RAF Air Cadets, and through just me recognising patterns and talking about things I’d noticed with parents, I contributed to multiple diagnosis of neurodivergent conditions including ADHD and Autism.

Would you change not knowing? If you go back and tell your younger self what you know now, would you?

CR: That’s a great question… I might have to steal that!

I don’t think that if I had known sooner, it would’ve changed much about how my life had panned out. Just help to explain why I have bad impulse control around spending and eating and why I can’t remember basic things or why I’m always late. Would’ve really helped with understanding why someone disagreeing with me feels so personal with the Rejection Sensitivity Disorder (RSD).

DC: See I don’t think I would go back in fear of being given a label. It was a worry for me when I was going for the diagnosis, even as an adult, that I would struggle with a label. I don’t have any shame in having a label, but I was worried about using it as an excuse for not doing things. Luckily, I was wrong, but I still wouldn’t go back.

I think the reason is that I would have struggled. No, not struggled, just not learnt as much about myself and the people around me and how they think and act. I think that doing things the hard way, playing life on “hard mode,” it has helped me get to where I am in my career.

CR: That actually leads us nicely on to the next question, what 3 things do you wish you knew sooner about your Neurodiversity, or what 3 bits of wisdom would you pass along to anyone else in the Neurodiversity community.

1. DC: So, first thing I would say is around communication. I talk in very clear, simple, honest terms; I often struggle with small talk, and find that trying to sugar-coat things usually confuses situations. I’ve found that people with ADHD (or any neurodivergence) don’t tend to use big words or complex language; and that simple language gets the message across faster, to a wider audience, and with less chance of misunderstanding. I used to work in a company with multiple locations where the CEO would actively book in time with me and ask me direct questions as he knew I would tell him the truth of how things were going. He wasn’t always happy with what I said but he respected my honesty, and we were always on good terms.
2. My next biggest piece of advice for my younger self/anyone reading this would be around embracing feedback & having difficult conversations. When I first started in my career, those really intense days of working to catch up were horrible, but I always delivered on time. Naturally, managers didn’t like this, and the feedback was always “you’re great at your job, but we need consistency” or “if you had told us you were having issues, we could’ve helped. You need to communicate better”. As much as it stings, try to learn to embrace that feedback, to get used to difficult conversations and not take it too personally. It’s a real challenge for people in general, but for people with ADHD, receiving criticism can be incredibly hard. Being able to receive, and as a leader to give, difficult feedback is really important and it will help to escalate your career to the next level, every time.
3. Finally, I’d say learn your personal strengths and don’t be afraid to try and find or create jobs that fit your skills. With Gear4music, there was an understanding that they needed help leading the tech team, but no clear understanding of in what way. In my interviews, we talked about my skills and identified that I could help most in solving the “now” part of the puzzle. Day-to-day technical operations. What’s going on today? What’s broken? How do we fix it? How do we get things back on track? I can help you with people stuff because I get people, and overall, how to get things done right? But I’m not a project planning guy. I’m not long-term architecture design guy. That doesn’t suit my brain. So, we created a job that was really focused on the next couple of weeks. A time span I can see quick and clear results from. The kind of time span that we can very easily cope with as people with ADHD. Employers want you to succeed. Whether for business reasons or for personal reasons, no one wants you to fail so don’t be afraid to speak up about how you can provide extra value.

Obviously, that’s just my advice and what helped me but everyone’s different!

CR: What accommodations have you/your employer made to help you in your role?

DC: because of how I came into my role, there hasn’t been much that’s been needed to change. Really the main adjustments have been small things. For example, I’ve always said to my team, don’t be afraid to message me more than once, or chase up on things that have been sent through Slack. What will tend to happen is that I get a message, start looking at the thing, then forget to reply about the thing.

CR: A well-trodden path for many neurodivergents.

DC: Exactly! So, I said to them “If I have seen it but haven’t responded within a few minutes, assume I’ve forgotten about it.” From this, I’ve outlined that it is in my interest as well as theirs for them to chase and that they are not being annoying, needy, whatever so people feel more comfortable in doing so. Again, that comes down to communication.

In terms of a company wide change, we changed the way we hire and the language we use. Following the Monzo tone of voice guide, we re-wrote all of our job adverts to be clear, simple and easily understood. The key benefit is that it made applying for roles more easily accessible for people with a neurodivergent condition, and more gender-friendly as well.

It has been proven that women, as well as many neurodiverse people, in particular autistic people, won’t apply for a role if they don’t meet all of the requirements. Both are for different reasons, but with this small change we have massively widened our talent pool and hired genuinely great people.

We have changed other things like our interview process and providing feedback, but I would say that is the biggest one.

CR: Leading on from that, how would you recommend someone go out and expand their knowledge on Neurodiversity? Whether this be in the Workplace or with a loved one?

DC: It’s tough. The best way to learn anything is by being taught about it by people who really know the subject. I run training sessions at Gear4music on ADHD and Autism, and give an overview about other neurodivergent conditions such as Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, Tourette’s, etc. If you know anyone with ADHD or Autism, ask if they would be open to talking to you about some of their experiences.

In general, I would say it’s just as important to learn about what neurodiversity is not, as it is to learn about what it is. Through a lot of media representations, people have a clear pre-conceived idea of what different neurodivergent conditions are, and most of the time they’re wrong. Going through things like avoiding old terminology, misconceptions, and that these conditions are disabilities, but people aren’t “broken”.

I also recommend people watch TikToks as it helps to humanise it all. There is one particular channel, Jessica McCabe (@howtoadhd) | TikTok, which I recommend to people a lot as she is really clear in her wording and makes it easy to understand. I also highly recommend the book “DIRTY LAUNDRY: Why adults with ADHD are so ashamed and what we can do to help” Written by a couple RØRY (Roxanne Emery) and Richard Pink. They also make TikToks about daily life, but their book is incredible. Written from their very direct perspectives, it doesn’t shy away from the funny, frustrating, and tough side of ADHD. It also speaks about her partner who has learnt how best to support her and be there for her, but also how he struggles with it as he doesn’t truly understand everything.

Join the Conversation

If you are a Neurodiverse professional, thought leader, or advocate, and are interested in contributing to this series, we would love to hear from you. Your insights and experiences are invaluable and can help foster a more inclusive and understanding workplace environment.

Message Cam directly via LinkedIn or reach him through email at cameron@adlib-recruitment.co.uk to express your interest.

Alternatively you can submit your answers via this form to be featured in this series.